tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1222590081823739642.post3230433648689500667..comments2024-03-28T07:28:58.459-07:00Comments on The Breeding-back Blog: New Aurochs head reconstruction and new photo from OostvaardersplassenDaniel Foidlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02924677790606716751noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1222590081823739642.post-59493486730100084092014-01-21T07:25:12.887-08:002014-01-21T07:25:12.887-08:00As an afterthought, I see that it is possible to o...As an afterthought, I see that it is possible to order the television-series through the networkwebsite (VARA) as well. Quite costly though and only in dutch. Here is the link:<br /><br />http://shop.vara.nl/de-nieuwe-wildernis-dvd-boxDoctorBlueshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04369912531664268019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1222590081823739642.post-23344807985957913842014-01-21T07:08:32.668-08:002014-01-21T07:08:32.668-08:00Unfortunately that's the cinematic version as ...Unfortunately that's the cinematic version as well, so no Heck catlle there either. The footage I'm talking about was only broadcast on tv and had a different voice-over as well. Perhaps they added it to the second dvd as an extra. Even still, the other wildlife is spectacular enough in itself and gives a small glimpse of how a large nature reserve with bred-back large grazers might function in the future. DoctorBlueshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04369912531664268019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1222590081823739642.post-26785671703585966232014-01-20T10:54:27.375-08:002014-01-20T10:54:27.375-08:00Hi, yes, I've seen the shortened version on Yo...Hi, yes, I've seen the shortened version on Youtube and was quite upset about the absence of Heck cattle. But today I ordered the full version on amazon, if there's anything interesting I'll report it here. Daniel Foidlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02924677790606716751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1222590081823739642.post-28099736643435900502014-01-20T07:42:11.689-08:002014-01-20T07:42:11.689-08:00Considering the hormone-driven growth differences,...Considering the hormone-driven growth differences, they should maybe set up a different project in which they artificially give calves different (stress)hormones (f.i. thyroxinase) and see if they develop an adult-type face en colour,. Would be quite unethical, but interesting.<br /><br />In the recent and very succesfull cinemaversion of the documentary 'de Nieuwe Wildernis' heckcattle played no role at all (probably because of the ethical problems the OVP-experiment has been giving and the domestic outlook of many of the heck-cattle there). In the longer version, that was broadcast on dutch television in three parts, you can see an interesting item on a fight between two bulls, both of which show a number of aurochs-features. Maybe you can still download it somewhere.DoctorBlueshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04369912531664268019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1222590081823739642.post-11133047289737277142014-01-09T07:28:38.799-08:002014-01-09T07:28:38.799-08:00Thank you!
Well, I think that both the environmen...Thank you! <br />Well, I think that both the environment and genetics influence the body shape of Heck cattle, like in basically any tetrapod. And I am sure that natural selection caused a change in the genetic makeup controlling the body shape, and that athletic bulls won't revert back to a domestic, fat body if they were raised in a zoo or something, although they would be heavier than their wild counterparts, like any wild bovine. <br />There is no artificial selection in Oostvaardersplassen, only very weak cattle are culled during winter to prevent suffering, like deer. There are many reasons that can change the colour. First of all, unpigmented areas, or simply less pigmented areas (dilution), increase the cancer risk because more UV radiation is absorbed. Furthermore, there are, like I explained in the post, evidently pleiotropic effects, such as Thyroxinase which is responsible for the production of melanin but also has other functions in the body (but I am amateur on this subject). And last but not least, sexual selection is important. Animals with a shiny red/black colour might be preferred over tan or sallow-coloured animals. Therefore, it is absolutely not surprising that the colour will change when the cattle are released into nature, but the speed at which the first small changes are visible surprised me. Daniel Foidlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02924677790606716751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1222590081823739642.post-21709928562886291552014-01-09T07:03:48.168-08:002014-01-09T07:03:48.168-08:00Looking at the earlier photos of this herd that yo...Looking at the earlier photos of this herd that you posted .The cattle appears to developing into a lighter more athletic type ,some look a bit thin .If this is an adaptation to the nutrients or if is due to a strong competion among bulls behind what appears to be a genetic adaptation is a good question.Are there no human selection at all on this herd?It is hard to understand why the colors would be changing without selection pressure from human or predators.. <br /> <br />Any way thank you for a a great blog and all your interesting posts at the carnivora forum!Bjarnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14568660349264924751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1222590081823739642.post-83985279705353906092014-01-09T01:41:29.926-08:002014-01-09T01:41:29.926-08:00A grazing adaption was my first explanation for th...A grazing adaption was my first explanation for the longer skull, but I don't know that should make sense. And it wouldn't explain why the snout doesn't only get longer but also looks more "adult" - smaller eyes, straight/slightly convex snout profile. <br />They don't appear skinny to me, and if they are, the problem is more likely related to the size of the area and the population density, since they previously thrived in the reserve. Daniel Foidlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02924677790606716751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1222590081823739642.post-36665078584023268892014-01-08T19:41:36.648-08:002014-01-08T19:41:36.648-08:00The longer head could be an adaptation for better ...The longer head could be an adaptation for better grazing/browsing in that area.They do look abit skinny,maybe the food quality is not the best and they have to adapt to that?Bjarnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14568660349264924751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1222590081823739642.post-47448704824282423412014-01-08T19:32:47.868-08:002014-01-08T19:32:47.868-08:00The conclusion from Belyaev`s Foxes are controvers...The conclusion from Belyaev`s Foxes are controversial although I am not sure if there are any paper published about that.Bjarnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14568660349264924751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1222590081823739642.post-38842176364235685862014-01-08T16:44:53.206-08:002014-01-08T16:44:53.206-08:00I looked for some good cows of the brown swiss on ...I looked for some good cows of the brown swiss on google, most of them were pretty massive and had a large udder but cows like this one (http://www.tiroler-braunvieh.at/uploads/pics/Brown_Swiss_Championat_001.jpg) look nice indeed! I also found this cow (http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww345/basil-seal/2011_0727picsforsorting0059.jpg) which was presented in a forum as a cross of "holstein, brown swiss and shorthorn". The colour isn't bad, and the long snout is very aurochs-like. <br />I'm not sure if a lack of vitamins is a sufficient explanation for this weird brown colour in that Sanga cow, because related cattle show a very similar colour also on other grounds and locations (f.e. Europe, USA), I am thinking of Watussi for example. Daniel Foidlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02924677790606716751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1222590081823739642.post-40342267883346733172014-01-08T12:06:47.853-08:002014-01-08T12:06:47.853-08:00the original brown swiss (brune suisse) are really...the original brown swiss (brune suisse) are really nice cows, they are used as crosses with holstein for better legs and feet - unfortunately i believe they have now been infused with the polled-gene, which prohibits the growth of horns, to farmers a positive trait in function of human (and animal) safety but in the light of capacity to survival a nono.<br />But i believe they have a dilution of the red pigment and a change of black pigment to brown (chocolate)<br />In case of the brown african cow in a former blog, that could be due to severe lack of certain vitamins that can bleach blackDon'Quihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08454547941630146972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1222590081823739642.post-12668786604970001512014-01-05T13:08:09.234-08:002014-01-05T13:08:09.234-08:00Yep, I noticed him already. The colour is good, bu...Yep, I noticed him already. The colour is good, but the horns still face quite outwards; strangely the horn curvature seems to adapt faster in cows than in bulls. Daniel Foidlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02924677790606716751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1222590081823739642.post-49157101024810437932014-01-05T09:03:02.354-08:002014-01-05T09:03:02.354-08:00Did you notice what appears to be a bull, on the l...Did you notice what appears to be a bull, on the left side, in that Oostvaardersplassen photo?<br />Black coat, and forelocks, and darkened mealy mouth.<br /><br />Link to the animal I'm referring to:<br />http://oi44.tinypic.com/xkrh2a.jpgavengerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07336474827528124668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1222590081823739642.post-31903897900460066672014-01-05T00:47:11.575-08:002014-01-05T00:47:11.575-08:00Yes, the view that selecting for tameness is suppo...Yes, the view that selecting for tameness is supported by peer-reviewed papers. I'll do a post on the farm fox experiment when I have the time to research a little deeper into it. <br />The herd seems to become more aurochs-like and it is fascinating to watch that; I think it is a matter of opinion if you prefer some selective culling and import of more aurochs-like animals to speed up the process (what would adulterate the impact of dedomestication), or just watch how long it takes until the animals look like small versions of the aurochs. I'm not sure what I would prefer, both scenarios are awesome. The worst would be if the Tauros people convince the Staatsbosbeher to remove the animals, it would ruin this fascinating dedomestication process. Daniel Foidlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02924677790606716751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1222590081823739642.post-14296339677244657052014-01-04T22:21:38.009-08:002014-01-04T22:21:38.009-08:00So I'm not alone in my belief that the Silver ...So I'm not alone in my belief that the Silver Fox experiment selecting for tameness also caused morphological changes to the foxes? On the forum I never gotten any response when I brought that subject up, other than one member's imaginary scenario why it isn't correct.<br />If the herd is indeed changing to more aurochs like animals on their own, then we don't really need to worry about influencing herd genetics.avengerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07336474827528124668noreply@blogger.com