They are still pretty muscular, as typical for the breed, but heavier than their younger counterparts. What is most interesting to me is that a number of individuals have much more aurochs-like horns than young bulls. At the age of three, the horns are not yet fully developed and can change quite noticeably. Many young Lidia bulls have a somewhat two-dimensional horn curvature, while some of the bulls in this video have a nice primigenius spiral, in particular the bull at 5:07 and the one at 9:34. I think that supports the idea that the horns of Lidia are more often aurochs-like than what the young bulls seem to suggest, if they only get the opportunity to grow to full adulthood their horns will be more developed and that can result in a primigenius spiral.
Wednesday, 21 December 2022
Video of fully grown Lidia bulls
Most Lidia bulls we see are young bulls at the age of three or four, because that is when they have their full body size but are comparably slender and most athletic. After that age, they become heavier, as all bulls do. It is rare that fully grown Lidia bulls are presented on the media as they are not as athletic and swift than young bulls. But here is a video of Lidia bulls that are most likely fully grown:
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Very impressive animals. These seem to be Colombian toros de lidia. Do we know details on breeding practice over there? Your article made me fall down the YouTube rabbit hole for a bit and now I question if there might be some criollo influence. Seeing El Candela run with those indicine cattle following the 15:00 minutes mark makes me even more paranoid. xD He is being adressed as "toro criollo" in the documentary, but seems to me very Lidia like in most aspects. However, I lack your decerning eye for breed characteristics. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDEf2yu8lhE
ReplyDeleteYes, in America Lidia are sometimes mixed with other breeds, including indicine and Criollo breeds. The bulls in the video you linked definitely have a lot of Lidia influence, with indicine/criollo influence. The resulting animals are quite good - zebus give longer legs and larger horns while the body is still very Lidia-like. I would like to see some of those bulls being used in "breeding-back".
DeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteI wantetd to ask if you could give a overview or time line of Bos/Bison evolution. I find it very confusing! Are they dreived from Pelorovis or Leptobos? Where is the origin? How do the modern species relate to each other and what are their ancestors? Do you have some good papers about the topic i could read?
Thanks already
It's currently unknown whether Pelorovis or Leptobos were the ancestors of the Bos clade; the idea that Pelorovis is the ancestor of Bos is mainly put forward by Martinez-Navarro et al., but many consider Leptobos to be more likely as it seems to be morphologically closer to Bos. In fact L. stenometopon has horns closely resembling those of several Bos species, and L. vallisarni has a skull quite similar to that of Bison. If the bison species and the other Bos species descend from different species of Leptobos, it would mean that Leptobos (and Epileptobos) is just a term for the most basal members of the Bos clade and that the bauplan of modern Bos (large, heavy) evolved several times. I consider this possible but we cannot be sure without clues from DNA and transitional fossils. If Leptobos was the ancestor of Bos, the origin of Bos would be in Asia. Regarding the phylogeny of modern Bos species, it is very difficult to show their relationship on a cladogram. Different genetic markers result in different phylogenies, and possibly hybridization played a role as well. But what seems to be solidly supported is a clade of Kouprey + (banteng + gaur), that the two bison species have a common origin, possibly also that the yak is a sister clade to the bison species, but there are also phylogenies where the yak is the basalmost member of the modern Bos clade.
DeleteHi Daniel, thanks for keeping us up to date with your blog! I'm still a frequent visitor after years. Keep up the good work!
ReplyDeleteBut the main reason I'm contacting you is that I just stumbled across this documentary on arte. I'm pretty sure it doesn't provide much new info or hardly any to be honest, but I guess there might be some interesting footage in there.
https://www.arte.tv/de/videos/095722-002-A/natura-europa/
Best regards and Happy holidays
Ursus Major